Late on Friday night the Cincinnati Reds officially traded starting pitcher Luis Castillo to the Seattle Mariners. The right-handed starter was perhaps the best player on the trade market and the return from Seattle was sizable. The Reds acquired shortstops Noelvi Marte and Edwin Arroyo, as well as right-handed pitchers Levi Stoudt and Andrew Moore.

The two shortstops acquired were the Mariners top two prospects. In Baseball America’s most recent Top 100 prospect list that was updated this past week, Noelvi Marte and Edwin Arroyo were both inside of the top 50. Marte ranked 47th and Arroyo was directly behind him and ranked 48th. The two pitchers were both rated as Top 30 prospects in the Mariners organization, with Levi Stoudt coming in at #10 in the midseason update and Andrew Moore at #26 on the list.

Noelvi Marte Scouting Report

Shortstop

Height: 6′ 1″ | Weight: 187 lbs.

Born: October 16, 2001

A big bonus signing out of the Dominican Republic in 2018, Noelvi Marte has worked his way up to High-A over the past few seasons. The 20-year-old has hit well in Everett, posting a .275/.363/.462 line this season with 19 doubles, 15 home runs, and 13 stolen bases in 85 games. He’s walked 42 times and has 84 strikeouts in 394 plate appearances.

He has an above-average hit tool and plus to plus-plus raw power, a rarity coming from a potential future shortstop. There are some concerns that he may need to move to third base down the line as his body matures as he’s already added plenty of size over the years and he’s still just 20. That won’t be too much of a concern, though, as his arm will easily play at third base if he has to slide over and his bat has more than enough potential to stand out there if he is able to continue his development.

He’s been on fire over the last five weeks in Everett. Since June 22nd he’s hit .365/.440/.669 with 15 walks and 20 strikeouts in 134 plate appearances. You can see his career stats here.

Edwin Arroyo Scouting Report

Shortstop

Height: 6′ 0″ | Weight: 175 lbs.

Born: August 25, 2003

Last year’s 2nd round pick for the Mariners, Edwin Arroyo has crushed the ball this season for Low-A Modesto while being just 18-years-old. He’s hit .315/.384/.513 with 18 doubles, 7 triples, 13 home runs, stolen 21 bases, walked 34 times, and he’s struck out 89 times in 410 plate appearances. The switch hitter has been better from the left side this season, hitting .329/.396/.520, but has hit well from the right side of the plate, too, posting a .276/.351/.494 line in 97 plate appearances.

Unlike Marte, there seems to be no concerns about Arroyo outgrowing the position. He’s considered a plus defender at shortstop with a plus arm. He shows above-average raw power and an above-average hit tool. Arroyo has also been quite successful on the basepaths where he’s used his above-average speed well. You can see his career stats here.

Levi Stoudt Scouting Report

Right-Handed Pitcher

Height: 6′ 1″ | Weight: 195 lbs.

Born: December 4, 1997

A 3rd round pick in 2019, Levi Stoudt didn’t pitch in a professional game that counted until 2021. He underwent Tommy John surgery after the draft and with the 2020 season being cancelled there were no games there for him when he was ready to return to the mound until the 2021 season began. He’s battled to find some consistency this season, and after a solid start to the year in the first two months, he’s posted an ERA of 6.98 since the beginning of June, bringing his ERA on the season up to 5.28 in his 87.0 innings. He’s kept the walks low, handing out just 22 free passes to go along with his 82 strikeouts.

Fastball: The pitch works in the mid 90’s and has touched the upper 90’s routinely this season.

Splitter: Arguably his best offering, it’s an above-average pitch in the low-to-mid 80’s that good movement.

Slider: An average offering in the mid 80’s most of the time, it will flash above-average every so often.

Curveball: A fringy offering that works in the mid 70’s.

There’s good control from Stoudt, but the command isn’t always there and when he’s missed this year the hitters haven’t let him get away with it. There’s some upside here with the potential for three above-average pitches with good control and the fallback option could be a high leverage reliever. You can see his career stats here.

Andrew Moore Scouting Report

Right-Handed Pitcher

Height: 6′ 5″ | Weight: 205 lbs

Born: August 11, 1999

Not to be confused with the Andrew Moore who pitched in the big leagues for Seattle a few seasons ago, this Moore was selected last season in the 14th round out of Chipola Junior College (the same school that Cam Collier attended this season). In 2021 he struggled with his control once turning pro, walking 18 batters with 16 strikeouts in 19.1 innings – mostly in Low-A Modesto. This season he returned there, and while he’s still walking a few too many hitters, he’s been dominate otherwise. In 32.1 innings he’s posted a 1.95 ERA and allowed 25 hits, walked 17, and he’s struck out 58 of the 133 batters he’s faced.

Fastball: Works in the mid 90’s and has touched 100 MPH.

Slider: An above-average offering that works in the mid-to-upper 80’s.

He’s going to need to continue working to improve his control as he moves up the ladder, but the stuff will play. You can see his career stats here.

Immediate Reaction

I hate this trade but believe that it was a good return. How does that sentence make sense? Well, I’ll do my best to explain it.

Baseball is set up in a way in which you no longer need to try and win baseball games in order to make money. It used to be that way. Teams needed big enough gates to cover all of their expenses because media contracts and sponsorship deals simply weren’t big enough business to make up a big portion of revenue, but those days are long gone. Now teams make a whole lot of money between television contracts on the local and national levels and it means that ticket sales make up a much smaller percentage of their revenues. That means winning and losing means less towards making money. Cincinnati is currently in their second rebuild over the last decade, and the current financial set up makes that palpable. This is why I hate the trade. The Reds traded one of the best starting pitchers they’ve had in the last three decades because it makes more sense for them to try and not win next season.

With that rant out of the way, in the market as it stands in baseball today, it seems like the four prospects that the Reds got in this deal was a quality return and probably more than many would have expected. Getting two top 50 prospects in baseball would have been a deal that I would have considered a return that was a little better than I expected given the market over the past few years. That they got that, as well as two other live arms seems like a good get in the current time of the market.

91 Responses

  1. Doug Gray

    For now I do not know exactly where I would rank these four guys within the farm system. Obviously the two shortstops are going to be near the top of the list, but exactly where is still up for debate. I’m going to spend more time talking to people, looking deeper at their stats, and watching some video of all four guys over the next few days to get a much better idea for myself how I feel about them rather than rely solely on what other publications write/share.

    What this does, mean, though, is that once the trade deadline has come and gone I will probably do a bit of a re-ranking of the Top 25 that will mostly be just inserting the new players in, but a player or two that was already ranked that was in the system could be moving, too (in fact, I know of one who will be moving down the list).

    • Greenfield Red

      I assume moving down will be a former 1st round pick who strikes out way too much. I think next year is fish or cut bait for him. I don’t know if it’s approach, preparation, or conditioning, but he has to figure it out, or he will never make it.

    • MK

      At Reds.com they have moved Marte to the Reds #1 prospect spot, Arroyo #6 and Study #15.

      Doug the game has always been set up to make money even if you were a losing team.

      • Bubba Woo

        I’m no expert, but there’s no way that Marte is a better prospect than Elly. They are both 20 and have spent the majority of the season at High A, where Elly has hit for a better average, significantly more power, and more Stolen Bases. Also, projecting forward, with Elly’s frame, it’s not hard to see him developing into a 40 HR player. I think this is a classic example of players being given a lower ranking simply because they weren’t a high draft choice or a high dollar signing.

    • Danny

      I have mentioned this elsewhere, but I would recommend that the rankings be as follows:

      1) EDLC
      2)Marte
      3)Arroyo
      4) Collier
      5) McClain

      I think Nos. 1 and 2 are essentially interchangeable. I also think Arroyo has the chance to overtake everyone and become a top prospect across all of MLB. Collier (recent first round pick), while unknown, has a bat with enormous upside.

      Beyond those 4, you could talk me into a number of possible prospects to round out the top 5. Hopefully Williamson or Petty (ideally both) go on a tear (with Williamson potentially joining the young MLB group of Greene, Lodolo, and Aschcraft in Cincinnati soon), as it would be nice to have another arm in the pipeline to join our young core of pitchers.

      • Danny

        I do not have enough knowledge or insight about Stoudt to know where to place him, so I will defer to you on him. However, I do think he would make my top 10 (near the end).

    • TJ

      Doug, I know you follow all the publications, but Keith Law just released his top 60, and boy oh boy the Reds have done well in the last few weeks.
      7. Elly de la Cruz “his ceiling tops them all in front of him”
      12. Noelvi Marte “he’s going to outgrow SS…already exceeding last year”
      29. Cam Collier “As he learns power, we will see middle-of-the-order bat ceiling”

      Just missing top 60 in his next best 10:
      Edwin Arroyo

      I’m not sure the Reds could have done much better then they have, short of finding a money pot to keep Castillo.

  2. Reddawg2012

    Doug, just wanted to thank you for your hard work. As a Reds fan who woke up to the trade news this morning. I knew immediately that if I came to rml.com I would find all the information I needed to know about the new prospects. I appreciate what you do!

  3. Jim t

    Doug thanks for all your hard work.

    I also agree with your assessment of the state of Baseball. It is painfully obvious that our ownership has very little interest in building a winner. The bottom line is all that matters. The incentive to build a winner has left the building. Their attitude is we should be lucky to have professional baseball in our city regardless if we are win or not. After all where are we going to go.

    I will continue to be a fan because that is what I have done since the late 1950’s. It reminds me of family and friends of the past and is something I share with my kids and grandkids. The shame is we can’t get a better effort from those we support with our time, money and facilities. It should also be pointed out that while attendance to the games as it applies to the ownership does not carry the weight it used to it still does for all the people who work or own establishments on the banks and rely on attendance to help them pay their bills.

  4. Brad

    Nick Krall seems pretty good at his job when allowed to actually do his job.

    With minor league player limit of 180 and a lot of pieces to move at trade deadline, I’m glad Reds went for higher end quality versus quantity. Redlegs infield prospects are both quality and quantity now. OF can use some help… But hey, they have 17 catchers drafted in top two rounds! Slight exaggeration.

    • MBS

      Krall is quickly becoming my favorite GM in recent memory. He’s been getting Young Talented pieces back in trade. He’s cut out a lot of fat off the roster, and now the team has the payroll flexibility needed to sign FA’s to fill the gaps in 23, and more in 24.

  5. Jim Delaney

    Totally agree on both the hating of the deal from a competitive standpoint but also agree the return seems quite strong. Until the Reds wind up with new owners that don’t care about the bottom line and only care about winning, the roller coaster and lack of direction will continue. The current owners Castellini, Williams brothers, etc…. They don’t care about being an annual contender even though they are in a division they should be able to consistently compete in. Need to hope somehow they will sell and a billionaire group will want to own it and want to for ego.. unfortunately this may never happen..

  6. Mark B.

    Doug, thanks for all your work keeping up with the Reds and Reds Minor Leagues. Where do you see the 4 players starting out in the Reds Minor League system? Thanks and GO REDS!

  7. AMDG

    This may be the Reds second rebuilt of the past decade, but it feels like the first one where they shown some semblance of knowing what they were doing.

    Last time around what they got for Chapman, Cueto, Leake, Frazier, Cozart, and Bruce seemed to be poor returns at the time of the trades. This time around it seems they are actually getting fair value, or better, for the guys they are unloading.

    • Stock

      This is exactly what I was thinking AMDG. With trades like this you don’t need to wait 5 years for a one year window with the last wildcard spot. Hopefully this is the beginning of the Tampa Bay of the NL.

    • James K

      When the Reds traded Cueto, most observers thought the Reds got the better of the deal. Then injuries happened.

      • Stock

        The haul the Reds got for Castillo is much better than what the Reds received in the Cueto deal.

        Lamb was a flyer.
        Finnegan was just drafted with the 17th pick of the 2014 draft.
        Cody Reed was drafted in the 2nd round of the 2013 draft and struggled in 2014 (5.46 ERA). Thanks to a good 2015 first half (supported by an 80% strand rate) Cody Reed had more value but I doubt that he was in many top 100 lists at the time of the trade. And if he were then it was probably at the back half of these lists.

        Cueto probably returned 0 of the top 50 prospects. Castillo returned 2 of the top 50 prospects.

      • AMDG

        I agree with you Stock.

        Finnegan was a #4 or #5 guy who had shown some success out of the Royals bullpen. Reed was barely top-30 as a prospect. And Lamb was an afterthought.

        I think if you take Noelvi Marte out of the Castillo trade, it would be similar to the Cueto trade.

      • AllTheHype

        Cueto and Castillo trades were apples and oranges in terms of exiting trade value. Cueto was a rental, Castillo is not.

  8. MK

    Think this definitely makes Barrel an outfielder. There will be a 2023 open spot there, if not August 2022. Farmer can hold the spot until de la Cruz or Marte are ready. Who knows what happens to McLain,Torres, Arroyo, or Cabrera.
    .

    • Jeff

      I think Farmer will be traded. He holds value as a platoon player all over the field vs LHP on a competing team. By the time the Reds are competing again he will be closing in on 34 or 35. Sell now. Play Barerro there everyday and see what happens. I’d suspect it wouldn’t go too great but it’s time to find out before the next minor league SS is ready.

  9. Matt

    I’m there on the though process through the trade. I’d love to watch Castillo pitch in Cincinnati red his whole career, but a future Reds team consisting of the likes of De La Cruz, Marte, Arroyo, Stephenson, India, Jorge, McGarry, Collier, Stewart, Balcazar, Barrero, Antonia, Almonte in some capacity is pretty exciting to look forward to. Common theme there is infielders, but, I’m sure one or few of them can play some outfield. And that’s just the bats.

    If Krall can now capitalize on Mahle, Drury, Pham, (maybe) Farmer, and (maybe) Senzel, I don’t think 2024 is an unrealistic competition expectation. A few of the above should be MLB ready. Moose and Votto will be off the books. The only “big money” will probably be India and Stephenson’s first year of arb.

  10. Billy

    I guess I don’t really get the distaste here. I too want to see the Reds compete and win. But the roster they have right now isn’t good enough. I’m on board with complaints about how they sold off everything over the winter. That was a travesty for a MLB team. But the moves they’re making now, coupled with a strong, young core, could make this team a real contender come 2024. If you don’t like the deal because it puts on what was likely a non-competitive 2023, fine. But I believe this positions the team to be winners, and these are the kind of moves that the team needed and was unwilling to do in the past. The future is looking pretty bright here.

    • Jim t

      Billy it’s not the hating the young talent being brought in but the fact we have to trade off established players like Castillo coming into their prime to obtain it. Would much rather be adding to our roster instead of always gambling on the cheaper options. Would like to see ownership invest more instead of always trying to balance the budget to obtain a profit.

      • Kindell

        He is saying that the decision to trade Castillo happened months ago when they traded off core controllable players. That was the decision to be mad at because this had to happen now. Castillo doesn’t fit their timeline after previous trades.

      • Mo84

        29 is not when your coming into your prime. I love Castillo but if you are a bad team and have players that can bring back 3 quality major leaguers it’s a good trade.

      • Billy

        Kindell is right. That’s exactly what I was saying, but said more succinctly, i.e., with fewer words. :-)

      • MikeD

        In C Trent’s story I read it that Krall offered Castillo an extension and it was turned down. Did anyone else pick up on that or did I read it wrong. If that was the case, the Reds did exactly as they should have.

      • BK

        @MikeD, that was my read, too that the Reds offered an extension.

      • Redsvol

        I caught that too – that Reds tried to get an extension done with Castillo before trading him. If that’s true, that gives me more hope that ownership may be understanding that the time is coming soon when you need to start adding payroll and not subtracting.

        I would love to know the total $ and years that we offered to Castillo.

  11. LarkinPhillips

    Any info out there on where these 4 will be assigned to play?

    • MBS

      Haven’t seen anything either, but just a guess based off their current level’s and performance. Marte and Stoudt in AA, Arroyo A+, and Moore in A ball.

      • Stock

        Quite a log jam at SS if Marte is pushed up to AA. Marte, De La Cruz and McLain all play SS. I would send Marte to Dayton and let him get comfortable with his new team. If they do that then Arroyo probably should go to Daytona.

        They could also more Marte to 3B in AA.

  12. MBS

    I don’t know what they can get for Mahle, but it might be smart to hang onto him. Even if we just make a qualifying offer to him after 23, we would still get a good prospect with the compensatory pick we’d earn.

    If they get something that blows their socks off, I’d understand that move to. I am actually trusting a Reds GM to make the right move. Who’d have thunk it?

    • Steve

      I could be wrong but I think the mlb might be doing away with compensatory draft picks. Either way, at this point I think they need to just move Mahle and lean as heavily into this rebuild as they can.

    • Shawn

      Mahle could get a too 100 prospect in a trade. You won’t get near that for a comp pick. He needs to be traded.

      • MBS

        I don’t disagree, a top 100 prospect would be good. That why I said if someone blows your socks off, I’d understand. I am not sure we’d get a prospect like that in return.

        For example the Twins are the team you hear linked to Mahle most often, they don’t have a top 100 prospect, except Royce Lewis. Royce is also hurt, and seems to be a perennial issue with him. Also I doubt they’d give him up for Mahle.

        They shouldn’t trade him just to trade him because we are rebuilding. Get value or keep Mahle is all I’m saying. Plus there is a benefit to the young rotation of having a veteran to learn from.

      • JaxDan

        @mbs

        Even though Wallner and Steer are not in the top 100 if you can get both from Min this would be a great trade. IMO

    • Redsvol

      absolutely MBS. We need to keep him and try to extend him if no-one blows our socks off. We need a veteran or two in the starting pitching room because injuries happen and there really isn’t anyone in AAA or AA ready to join the rotation for a year. The key will be whether Tyler wants to sign an extension or not. He is worth an extension but nothing of the magnitude of Joe Musgrove or Kevin Gausman got. He is probably worth $12-15$M annually. But I’m not convinced Tyler wants to stay in Cincinnati since he doesn’t pitch well in GABP.

  13. DHud

    Reds will presumably have $16 mil coming off the books by the end of this year with Minor and Pham gone and then another $43 mil following 2023 assuming Votto and Moose options aren’t picked up for the 2024 season

    Arroyo is the youngest of this new group and projected ETA is 2025

    That’s almost $60 mil a year by 2024 to convince Stephenson, India, Greene, and Lodolo to stick around through that 2025-2028 window

    Doug, correct me if I’m wrong but India and Stephenson are both FA eligible in 2027?

    • Chi Reds Fan

      A strategy of tanking in ’23 then competing in the ’24 and beyond window when the current top guys (Greene, Lodolo, Stephenson, India etc.) are still controlled but some of the minor league tops guys should be MLB ready is definitely emerging. As noted above the Reds should have some payroll to play with even without stretching into the top tertile salary level. So what to do with the $, extending some of their own players (say 1 or 2 years beyond arb) would seemingly be an option (then using some $ to fill holes where they emerge as certain prospects fail as they always do). Will the Reds do it? At least a viable strategy seems to be emerging (assuming enough of these prospects actually emerge into MLB level stars) and having a viable strategy would be nice, lets hope they stay consistent with it. Regardless the 2024 to say 2027 period should be very intriguing for the Reds.

      • Tom

        There is some poison in the water among the players about whether the Reds can be trusted to pay and keep their good players. They’ll have to convince some of them to sign deals like you’ve mentioned. Cueto was a good example. Otherwise consider most good players here for 4-5 years, or 6 when the team is ready to compete for a championship that final year.

        This should keep the farm stocked pretty well. Perhaps they also get some draft lottery luck as well. You have to look at the Collier pick like they know what their doing in the draft. Their international presence looks to be on course going forward too.

        They can’t/won’t pay an aging team yet* but I believe a 140-150 million payroll is imminent at the next push and that is enough to sign some smart free agent players.

        *I think the Reds need a sustained decade of success to afford a 150-175 payroll. Afford meaning how they calculate afford not how fans do.

    • Shawn

      Depends on if they are sent down to AAA for a couple weeks or not. Greene will probably run out of innings and sent to AAA so we would gain an extra year of control. Not sure what they will do with Lodolo. It was idiotic to have them on the opening day roster.

      • Stock

        I agree 100% Shawn. I felt they were put on the roster to fool people into buying tickets because the Reds would still be competitive. Unfortunately for Bob, the unknowing fan quickly found out when the Red came out of the gate with a big thud. Greene should have been in Louisville working on developing his pitches instead of in the majors. Quite the disaster in development for both pitchers.

      • Redsvol

        Absolutely agree Shawn. Greene and Lodolo should not have been on opening day roster. I’m sure they got some goodwill from the player and his agent but goodwill gets you nothing when you’re negotiating that first extension. Agents and players throw all that out the window and I don’t want to hear they don’t. So teams like Reds have to also be business-minded when it comes to service time.

  14. Stock

    My top 5 prospects right now are

    1. De La Cruz
    2. Marte
    3. Barrero
    4. Lodolo
    5. Arroyo

    A pretty impressive top 5.

    • DHud

      I know the industry still does but I don’t view Lodolo as a prospect anymore

      He has arrived

    • Kindell

      Exactly, and we also have Collier who we just added who was a top 10 talent in this draft class. We are obviously going to add two more high picks the next couple of years to those 5, and the likes of Greene, India, Stephenson, and Ashcraft.

      The negative view is that it doesn’t matter because of money, but they are going to clear a lot of money soon off the books. We just have to hope we end up like the Nationals or Astros with quick turnarounds. I am 36 years old, and I am not sure if I remember a time when the Reds had more talent under the age of 25.

    • MBS

      You didn’t put Barrero in your 25 lineup, do you think they’ll trade him?

  15. wolfcycle

    we are a team, that when ready to compete, has to spend money on the bullpen, we have been terrible in the bullpen the last 3-4 years. If 2024 is the year that they think this to be possible, then use that money, or a decent percentage of it on not only a closer, but multiple set up men. Great America small park you generally need multiple arms per game.

  16. Shawn

    I don’t think ownership don’t want to win. I think they are finally putting a plan in place that can make us winners. They want to be more like the Rays. We have to build a really strong minor league system. When players start to get expensive they need to be traded. The Reds should have more money to spend than the Rays, so maybe we can tweet it a little. Extend players like Stephenson, Lodolo and Greene for a few years. I don’t mean huge contracts after they hit free agency. I’m talking about buying out a few free agent years. I think that is what they were talking about when they said they didn’t want anymore peaks and valleys

    • Billy

      I think this is an interesting question. Can a team succeed by trying to emulate the Rays? I don’t know the answer.

      First, there’s the baseball side. Can a team simply draft, develop and trade for young talent and still put enough talent on the field to compete without paying free agent prices for anything? The Rays do it, but that doesn’t mean everyone can.

      Then there is the marketing side. Does the Rays approach work because they have no fans and can be cold and calculated about moving fan favorites? Or does the approach result in no name recognition and, as a result, no fans?

      I’m skeptical that a Rays approach will work for the Reds. I think they’ll have to spend some money on extensions and free agents, but they’ll need a good core to make it worth it. I’m thinking more like the Royals team that won a title that the Rays teams that have been competitive for a decade.

      • Tom

        It’s not Rays or nothing though is it? Here are the teams the Reds could emulate:
        Rays
        As
        Guardians
        Brewers
        Cardinals

  17. TJ

    About a possible logjam at SS. If these players are athletic as the scouts say, they could play other positions. It reminds me of a radio interview if a San Diego scout about 15 years ago. He spoke of having good luck drafting pitchers, but missing on position players. The scout stated they continued on their strengths and then traded from a surplus to get what they needed.

  18. kevinzs

    Hate losing Castillo.
    But love on Paper getting actual value.
    When failed doing that before in the past.
    Excited and curious see how this turns out.

  19. DJ

    Like so many, I’m waiting to hear where the incoming players are headed. After a half dozen years of trading players at the exact wrong time (or letting good players just walk away) was happy they managed to maximize Castillo’s value.

  20. Oldtimer

    CLIPPED … Baseball is set up in a way in which you no longer need to try and win baseball games in order to make money. It used to be that way. Teams needed big enough gates to cover all of their expenses because media contracts and sponsorship deals simply weren’t big enough business to make up a big portion of revenue, but those days are long gone …

    Yep. The Reds struggled with revenue in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Powel Crosley died in 1961. His family sold the Reds to Bill DeWitt. The Reds also struggled with revenue in the early to mid 1960s under DeWitt. He sold the team for $7 million to the Francis Dale partnership in 1967. They hired Bob Howsam and he hired Sparky.

    The Reds attendance and revenue more than doubled once Riverfront Stadium opened and the Big Red Machine blossomed. That was a necessary part of the success of the Big Red Machine teams.

  21. Stock

    Thinking ahead to 2025:

    C: Stephenson
    1B: Collier
    2B: India
    SS: De La Cruz/Arroyo
    3B: Marte
    LF: McLain
    CF: Siani
    RF: Arroyo/De La Cruz

    4 of the 8 will be all stars in the future: Stephenson, Collier, De La Cruz and Marte.

    The other four could very well be all stars.

    • RedBB

      Glad you included Siani as I’ve been pounding the dirt on him. He is an elite GG centerfielder the minute he hits the majors. He just needs to OPS around 90-95 to be an easy 2-3 bWAR guy. His arm is elite as well, the amount of assists he has as a centerfielder is bonkers. Oh and he’s fast too. He may only have 3 tools but those 3 tools are elite and will play up in CF.

    • MBS

      C (R) Stephenson / (L) Vellojin
      1B (L) McGarry
      2B (S) Arroyo
      SS (R) Barrero
      3B (R) India / Collier
      LF (R) McLain 60 Run / 55 Arm
      CF (R) Marte 60 Run / 55 Arm
      RF (S) De La Cruz 60 Run / 60 Arm
      DH (R) Collier

      That’d be a very right handed oriented team. I could see McLain being traded, and maybe Confidan earns an OF spot. Hendrix just seems to be lost, but he’s young still. Siani could definitely earn a spot with his defense alone.

    • DHud

      C: Stephenson
      1B: Collier
      2B: India (he’s already there and flourishing; leave it alone)
      SS: Arroyo
      3B: Marte
      LF: McClain
      CF: Barrero
      RF: De La Cruz

      • MBS

        India is not really flourishing at 2B. In 21 his OOA for 2B’s was dead last in the MLB at -7, and in 22 he is currently 35th out of 43 with a -2.

        He’s played 3B for a reason, he was only asked to move to 2B to accommodate Suarez and Moustakas. Stop making the kid suffer for players that are no longer factors on the team. Let’s let him actually flourish.

    • Bdh

      We talking opening day 2025 because I wouldn’t pencil Arroyo and Collier in there yet. I’d hope we could put together a group of our own prospects and have the reds looking like the following

      C – Vellojin
      1B – McGarry
      2B – India
      SS – Barrero
      3B – Marte
      LF – Cerda
      CF – Senzel
      RF – De La Cruz
      DH – Stephenson

      Bench – McLain
      Bench – Siani
      Bench – Fraley/Friedl
      Bench – Johnson/Lopez

      Still plenty of talent that should be close too. Names like Collier, Arroyo, Hinds, Allen, and Confidan. Then whoever else the reds get in the upcoming trades and the top 5 pick they’ll get next season

      Rotation and bullpen could both be loaded too

      That’s a ton of young controllable talent with a lot still coming behind them. That’s how a small market team stays relevant. Props to Krall for getting that.

      • DHud

        I’m hopeful the bullpen will be a self-correcting problem

        With guys like Santillan, Guitierrez, and Sanmartin already pushed to the pen and with Abbott, Williamson, and Petty coming quickly, there can only be 5 starters

        Everyone else, to the pen!

      • Bdh

        Diaz should be the closer for the next handful of years. The reds also have Antone until 2027, to go with Santillan, sanmartin, Kuhnel, Overton, Warren, Gutierrez, and Moreta until 2028 I believe.

        Then as you point out not all the promising starters coming up won’t stay starters. Bonnin due to injuries and Boyle are two that I think will be lights out in the bullpen

      • kevinzs

        C – Vellojin
        1B – Stephenson
        2B – Mclain
        SS – Barrero
        3B – India
        LF – Senzel if still around.
        CF – Siani
        RF – De La Cruz
        DH – Votto and Stephenson should be for next season at least.

  22. Hoyce

    Would have liked to seen ford included or kelenik instead of marte. But pretty good haul.
    Would like to have seen what the rangers were offering because I think if leiter was included which is doubtful that shoulda been it. And I think Jung will be real good at a position of need
    Now let Delacruz move to CF and let that speed and arm eat. He will remind people of a young Eric the red Davis

    • Hoyce

      •instead of arroyo. Not marte. Duh. Brain cramp

    • DaveCT

      Ford would have been great. But Arroyo’s value is likely higher due to being able to stick at SS. I’d have taken Kelenic as the 3rd of the 4th players. His value is down given his two or three shots at the ML’s not being especially good.

  23. Hoyce

    Now mahle to blue jays for tiedeman. Or mahle and another piece(drury or Pham) to Philly for painter or a package w o’hoppe

    • Bdh

      Mahle isn’t vaccinated. Can’t go to Toronto

      I’m hoping Toronto overspends for Montas and then there’s a bidding war for Mahle with the Yankees, Twins, Rangers, etc

    • RedBB

      Mahle and Drury to the Twins for Spencer Steer, Matt Wallner and Matt Canterino. 3 guys that aren’t but will crack post season top 100 lists.

      • Bdh

        You have the same two position players in your return that I would want but I’d switch the pitcher to Wood-Richardson with the hope he’d compete for a rotation spot as soon as next year. I’d also expect that return for just Mahle. Maybe throw in Solano but not Drury

      • Greenfield Red

        Something about those two says “no” to me. Both are 24 and showing good results at AAA. If the Twins really believed in them, there is no way they would be traded for anybody. Guys like that, if they are what they appear to be are just way to valuable to their franchise.

        6 years of cost control of 2 guys you think will be all stars is just too valuable to trade for anyone. Being this close to the majors, it would be a non-starter.

      • DaveCT

        Elite talent, vs. “major league ready.”

        We may have killed that demon, Greenfield!

        Add it to the list of ‘careful what ya wish for.’

      • Greenfield Red

        Funny Dave. I’ve been saying exactly this in big letters since I saw what happened last time. If this does not work, I will have to admit that I don’t know what I’m talking about. I have a lot of confidence in this.

        One of the best things about this trade is that it was not with the Yanks. I had an Aunt (now deceased) who thought the world of baseball revolved around the Yankees. It was almost if they wanted a player in another organization, the Yankees would call and tell you what they will give you, and that’s the way it was. They needed Castillo more than the Reds needed the Yankees, and now hopefully their streak of not winning the series continues.

        With regard to that Aunt: she called me one day about 16 or so years ago to brag about Derek Jeter’s 3,000th hit. My reply was short and sweet: “Just 1256 more to tie Pete Rose”. I don’t think she liked it much.

  24. kevinzs

    Hate losing Castillo but is already pushing 30.
    Missed early part of this season already.
    Going to miss him, if was younger.
    I would say No Deal

  25. kevinzs

    Interesting that De la cruz and Marte signed same day.
    Back on july 2 2018 interesting fact.