Matt Reynolds homered and had three hits while Jhonny Pereda extended his hit streak to 15 games in Louisville’s win, Connor Phillips dominated with seven shutout innings and 10 strikeouts and Alex McGarry had a walk-off extra-innings hit in Chattanooga’s win, and Edwin Arroyo homered and extended his hit streak to seven games as Dayton got dominate pitching in their victory on Wednesday.
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The Louisville Bats won 8-4. Box Score
- Joey Votto (rehab) went 1-5.
- Henry Ramos (rehab) went 1-3 with a walk and a run.
- Christian Encarnacion-Strand went 1-4 with a walk, double, 2 runs, and 2 RBI.
- Matt Reynolds went 3-4 with a walk, double, home run (8), 2 runs, and 2 RBI.
- Nick Martini went 1-5 with a run and an RBI.
- Chuckie Robinson went 2-4 with an RBI.
- Michael Siani went 1-3 with 2 walks.
- Jhonny Pereda went 2-4 with a walk, home run (2), and 2 RBI.
- Brett Kennedy allowed 2 runs in 6.0 innings with a walk and 8 strikeouts.
- Joel Kuhnel threw a shutout inning with a strikeout.
The Chattanooga Lookouts won 3-2 in 10. Box Score
- Blake Dunn went 1-5.
- Ivan Johnson went 1-5 with 2 runs.
- Alex McGarry went 1-4 with a walk, double, and an RBI.
- Rece Hinds went 2-4 with a double.
- Quincy McAfee went 1-3 with a walk and a home run (4).
- Daniel Vellojin went 1-3 with a walk.
- Connor Phillips allowed one hit in 7.0 shutout innings with a walk and 10 strikeouts.
- Ryan Meisinger allowed a run in 2.0 innings with 2 strikeouts.
The Dayton Dragons won 2-1. Box Score
- Edwin Arroyo went 2-4 with a 2-run home run (6).
- Wendell Marrero went 1-3.
- Chase Petty was charged with an unearned run in 4.0 innings with 2 walks and 2 strikeouts.
- Myles Gayman threw 2.0 hitless innings with a walk.
- Braxton Roxby threw 1.2 shutout innings with 2 walks and a strikeout.
- Jake Gozzo threw 1.1 perfect innings with a strikeouts.
The Daytona Tortugas game was suspended
The game was in the 4th inning when the rain came through and put a halt to things. They will resume the game on Thursday at 4pm and it will be followed up by a 7-inning game.
The ACL Reds had the day off
The DSL Reds had the day off
6/8 Game Preview
| Team | Record | Time (ET) | Probable | Box Score | Listen | Watch |
| Louisville | 32-26 | 12:05pm | TBA | Here | Here | Here |
| Chattanooga | 28-24 | 7:15pm | Benschoter | Here | Here | Here |
| Dayton | 28-25 | 7:05pm | Rivera | Here | Here | Here |
| Daytona | 21-31 | 4:00pm | TBA/TBA | Here | Here | N/A |
| AZL Reds | 2-0 | 9:00pm | TBA | Here | N/A | N/A |
| DSL Reds | 1-1 | 11:00am | TBA | Here | N/A | N/A |
I was at the Bats game tonight. Jhonny Pereda is a flat hitter, but Reynolds looks good at the plate. His Home Run went the opposite way off the large scoreboard, and he made good contact on the others.
Votto’s hit was a routine groundball to shortstop that went through because the shortstop was going to cover the bag, so basically a hit and run type play. The consensus in the crowd was Votto looked slow and old.
Ramos looks ready but know where he fits now and Siani looks overmatched.
My first look at Kennedy. He didn’t look as good as his stats said he was. I guess that is a positive. On the other hand, Duarte looked better than his stats show and Nutoff looked just as bad as his stats.
He is slow an old. Hard to see him get any meaningful AB’s this year with the young pups biting. Gotta think CES comes up at some point too. Does Votto want to retire as a Red or would he consider being traded to a playoff team coming off the bench?
Would a playoff team trade for a player who is “old and slow”?
Even if the Reds ate his contract, and gave him away for nothing (a la the Chapman trade), I’m not sure many playoff teams would trade for him.
If a rebuilding team like the Reds don’t have a roster spot for a guy hitting 0.200, strikes out 30%~40% of the time, and is positionally limited, I doubt a playoff team does.
Nice to hear your at-game observations @MK. Kennedy’s stats certainly are impressive. Duarte deserves to be called up if a pitcher goes on the 60 day DL. Siani is still young but the hit took just never came around.
Tough situation with Votto. He’s been so good for so long but how do you give him at bats on the big league club. He probably deserves a 1-2 month “so-long” tour but it hurts the development of somebody (Ces probably). He is too proud to retire before his contract ends. He shouldn’t get at bats against lefties at all.
Matt Reynolds’s has discovered something. Again, no room for him in Cincinnati- which has to be tough on him. Maybe he can be traded to a contender for a low level prospect. Lot of underperforming 200$m payroll teams out there.
Interesting statement about Votto being “too proud…” when Votto himself has said multiple times that when he can’t perform he will retire.
Box score in Louisville shows Votto’s average after Wednesday’s game is 64 points lower than the next lowest average in the Bats’ box score. The Reds have something special going right now, I hope they don’t screw it up for old times or contract sake. Wally Pipp never again saw the starting lineup when Lou Gehrig stepped in for a spot start and never let go. That’s when baseball was really fun for me, when contracts did not get in the way of making decisions based on performance.
You know Doc that batting average includes his first rehab stats which were actually better
@MK Kennedy is not a major league pitcher in my opinion, but he was a good add for depth at the AAA level that was much needed for the other guys to develop around. I would give Krall a few points for finding him from an independent league to fill a vacancy like he did.
Is Chase Petty ready for promotion yet? I don’t know what else he has to prove at A+. Although his stats tonight weren’t dominant, he’s been consistent through 5 starts of generally shutout baseball. ERA down to 0.45.
Is he still technically rehabbing? Or is he developing another pitch?
I’d like to see him at AA to finish the second half of the season much like Abbott and Phillips did last season. It’s time to promote Phillips to AAA and move Petty to AA. Who knows, next season Petty could be pitching for the Reds?
2024 Starting Rotation
1.) Greene
2.) Lodolo
3.) Ashcraft
4.) Abbott
5.) Lively
6.) Williamson/Phillips/Petty
Keep an eye on Petty’s pitch counts. There should be a jump coming.
He’s apparently only stretchex out to 48 pitches in June after 5 starts. What are they doing.
Petty is a long way from being in a major league rotation. They are being very careful with him. 50 pitch count limit.
Now Phillips is someone I can see getting promoted after all star game.
Petty is not on a pitch count he is on an IP limit at 4 for some reason. As he gets better his pitch count goes down. Below is his pitch count per start. He could have gone 5 inning and thrown fewer pitches than he did on May 10. Makes no sense to me.
5/10/2023 64
5/17/2023 57
5/24/2023 52
5/31/2023 54
6/7/2023 48
Maybe he throwing on he side after the inning in a more controlled environment. Maybe they are building him up to be able to make a jump to AA and finish the season instead of hitting an innings limit in August. What do you actually know Stock so throw shade? Reds just dumped 8-10 dudes onto the MLB team that jav been productive the last 15 months yet we still have these old dated narratives. Psh
I am not sure what you are implying Andrew, but will respond anyway.
What I do know:
1. Chase Petty is not on a pitch count. If he were on a 50 pitch pitch count he would have been taken out earlier in his first four starts. If he were on a 60 or 70 pitch count they would have sent him out for the 5th inning.
2. Chase Petty did not throw on the side last night. Why pitch a prospect on the side when you can pitch him in a game in which he was dominating?
What I am pretty sure of:
1. Chase Petty is probably on an IP limit this year of somewhere between 125 and 130 IP.
2. The Reds are being conservative with Petty. They are more concerned about 2025 than 2023 and they should be.
What I think:
I am stealing this from DaveCT. I think Petty will be freed up very soon and his pitch counts will take a large leap.
What I have no clue on:
What you mean by old dated narratives.
For some context regarding the high degree of caution with Petty. Pitchers drafted out of high school face a very, very high risk for injury. This is more true of kids drafted out of northern states where the season is shorter. So the cautious approach is both warranted and a standard of the DJ top to bottom development program.
I suspect the top 4 will be in the rotation, but I fully expect the club to sign someone for the middle of the rotation next season to either slot in the middle bumping Lively/Williamson out or take Ashcraft out of the equation if he can’t figure things out again. Think I’d feel much better leaving Lively and Williamson in long relief and Petty and Phillips in the minors to at least start 2024 anyway. Then see how things go.
@MAC624 Agree with you for the most part. I’m thinking Ben Lively will stay in the rotation until proven otherwise. It’s early, but his starts have been impressive. Even if he regresses to an ERA of 4-5, that’s not terrible to have as your 5th man or as you mentioned LR with an option to be a spot starter.
I think Phillips could be in the MLB by years end. Injuries may force the issue (example Williamson- but he was clearly not ready though based on AAA performance).
I also believe Petty could make the jump next season like Abbott did this season. He’s in the same position as Abbott was last season. Does everyone forget that Abbott started last season at A+ (he appeared in 5 games)? Very similar numbers oddly.
Petty just turned 20 years old and Phillips just turned 22. Those are some young dudes to be pitching at the level they are. I just don’t see them being fast with promotions of such young players.
I think any “rescue” starters are going to come from the likes of Levi Stoudt, 1 of the 60 day DL guys, or (gulp) Randy Wynne. The starters are going to need to do their part.
Agree with the Phillips and Petty promotions. We need help in the Reds rotation, let’s see how Phillips stuff plays in AAA. Abbott passed the test, now it should be Phillips chance.
Petty is just ridiculous in A+, promote the kid yesterday.
Petty just turned 20 and has around 125 career innings pitched for just one full pro season and small segments of his two others.
Right now, he is proving he can get guys out at Hi-A for four-five innings a start. Let’s see if he can get guys out for five-six innings, then six-seven innings at Hi-A first and let him build innings that way.
One of the primary objectives of A ball is building full season capacity, especially for the younger kids pushing upward, and especially for high school pitchers from northern states.
Being too aggressive with young arms is begging for a career ending injury.
I’m sorry, but no. Holding players back artificially is a mistake, just as is promoting players too early.
Petty 5GS, 20IP, 1ER, 5BB, 23K 0.90WHIP, 0.45ERA
He isn’t getting challenged, and will not grow in A+ as fast as he would in AA. I know they have him on an innings limit, but they also have Richardson on a innings limit, and he’s in AA. Heck they could piggyback if you wanted. EDLC would be in AA by these standards, some guys advance faster than others.
There’s nothing arbitrary about holding a guy back who hasn’t demonstrated the capacity to pitch to expectations at the level he is playing, in this case, innings. That’s called data. Yes, its the limiting program he’s on, but there are data based reasons behind the program. Durability is a significant developmental objective, especially for a kid five games into his second season of full season ball. In fact, promoting him without the data is what is arbitrary, or artificial. It’s also reckless. This is someone’s career.
I probably came in too strong, that being said I do think keeping him in A+ ball is holding him back.
“in this case, innings.” So your major point is workload related, not ability to get outs as a pitcher, or locate, or command.
Here’s the thing, innings in AA are the same length as they are in A+. The big difference is he will face more advanced batters in AA where he will be challenged in those innings.
Again I reference Richardson as a “workload” comp. They clearly can manage workloads in AA as easily as they do in A+.
The only argument that makes sense is they don’t want him pitching with a pre tacked ball. I can see some validity in that reason. His data, 5GS, 20IP, 1ER, 5BB, 23K 0.90WHIP, 0.45ERA suggests promotion otherwise.
One more comp, Greene. He had 18 starts in A+ averaging less than 4 IP per start. Petty has 12 starts in A+ so 6 more starts would draw him even with HG. I think Greene would have been 19, Petty is 20, and Greene didn’t dominate A+ batters the way Petty is dominating them.
Yes, you’re correct, the workload issue is my focus. Thank you for bringing that out.
My understanding, though, is that workload is to be seen in a developmental context. Petty’s capacity to get batters out in the 5th, 6th, perhaps even 7th innings is a form of ability. Durability may be another way to define it. And combined with a pretty serious innings limit this year anyway (likely 125 innings total — last year he was at 100 innings total), Petty may spend more time in Dayton than I’m sure he’d like.
When Abbott just began in AAA, Baseball America/JJ Cooper (who knows the Reds system as well as anyone) reported that they wanted to see Abbot go deeper into games with the same effectiveness (ability). And pretty much the second he hit that 7th inning, he was up. It just was to no benefit to the next level bringing Abbott up before he was a solid bet to get into the 6th or 7th innings.
Similar line of thought to Petty. That said, they did bump Phillips up to AA aggressively last year, so it’s certainly not out of the question.
I think Lively has done well this year, but, long term I do not think he is in starter plans, I think he will be spot starter and reliever. I actually hope I am wrong on this. I am worried about Ashcraft, is he hurt? Are his mechanics messed up? is he tipping his pitches? Last season there could have been an argument made he was our best pitcher. This year…….
To my untrained eye it looks like Ashcraft has been struggling with location. A lot of balls up in the zone have been getting hit hard. Hopefully just a focus/mechanical issue. His grandmother did just pass away.
Votto should just become a roving hitting coach for the young kids. They could use his knowledge of hitting and becoming a better all around player. Money be Dammed
Doesn’t Eric Davis already have that role?
Votto boosting his average up to 0.148 and reducing his K’s to 40%.
I suppose that is trending in the right direction, but when he gets called up before CES (whose OPS is more than 2x Votto’s), I’m curious what the fan reaction will be.
I wouldn’t worry about fan reaction if he is called up before Christian. The number of Votto jersey’s, tee shirts, applause and photos being taken last night tells me the reaction among diehards will be worse if zJoe isn’t called up will be worse.
I’m with @MK on this. The vast majority of fans would like to see JV back on the big club. For the most part, folks on this site are way more sophisticated in understanding baseball than the average fan – and understand that CES is a much better player at this stage. But JV is a household name and I will understand the front office’s choice of bringing JV up when he says he is ready. He deserves a short retirement tour – even if they don’t call it that.
Not much hitting in the lower level teams. Arroyo has been impressive however. That Daytona team is going to bust out at some point. Too much talent to stay down all year.
You could plausibly see Phillips in Cincy by September. He would be a real weapon out of the bullpen in a playoff push. Incredible strikeout totals…..the only blemish is 8 home runs allowed so far.
Gozzo picked up his 5th Save for Dayton, needs to receive credit for that.
Sadly, it’s looking more and more like Joey Votto should throw in the towel. The Reds need have that conversation. His situation kind of reminds me of the Los Angele’s Lakers situation with Elgin Baylor back in 71-72. He had ruptured his Achilles the previous season and was never the same. He retired a few games into the season, turning the position over to Jim McMillan. The rest is history. Votto & CES pose a similar situation.
I think his role if he returned could be the same as Pujols last year. A few starts at DH and a few pitch hitting appearances. But we need to get rid of one of the three catchers in order for that to happen. CES should be up soon and at 1B or DH most days. TySteve should catch only. If we don’t get away from the 3 catcher thing and add Votto we are playing essentially two guys down everyday. But I would like to see Votto at least start hitting some in AAA before he fills any role on the Reds. The ship of him coming back and playing everyday has definitely sailed.
Whoever put a 70 on Elly’s speed should be fired.
I love to watch players who have that extra gear they can kick in when needed. Griffey Jr. and Prime Time had it. It is truly fun and exciting to watch.
Brady Anderson had that gear. Saw him some in AA.
I think the future has come much quicker than the front office expected. The NL central is there for the taking and the Reds should be looking to do just that.
Step 1: Myers is a bench bat or released.
Step 2: Bring up CES
Step 3: Bring up Phillips and send Ashcraft down to figure it out. Send Williamson down just because he sucks. Williamson and Ashcraft are draining the bullpen and putting the Reds in a big hole every time they take the mound.
C: Stephenson
1B: CES/Steer
2B: India
3B: EDLC
SS: McLain
LF: Fraley
CF: Friedl
RF: Benson
DH: CES/Steer
Bench: Maile, Fairchild, Newman, Votto
Rotation: Greene, Lively, Abbott, Phillips and Weaver
That lineup would probably be one of the best in Baseball!!!!! The bullpen is good. Just need some starting pitching.
Agree mostly, with a couple comments. Phillips still has a bit to prove. He had a great start last night, but in previous starts he’s had inconsistent command and control. He’s not ready yet. I would demote Williamson and give Ashcraft another couple starts.
Steer can play the OF corners, and that should be leveraged like NOW. That would alleviate some of the positional stress in the IF and provide a clearer pathway for CES at 1B.
I forgot about Senzel. I guess that means Fairchild goes to Louisville. Fraley and Senzel become a platoon.
Fraley has a .866 OPS vs. RHP he should start whenever a RHP is on the mound.
Fraley has a .235 OPS vs. LHP. He should be on the bench whenever a LHP takes the mound.
Benson has yet to bat vs. a LHP this year so he is a platoon player already. Last year in AAA (.761 vs. LHP, 1.003 vs. RHP)
Senzel has a 1.159 vs. LHP. He should start whenever a LHP does.
Senzel has a .549 vs. RHP. He should be on the bench vs. RHP.
Newman has a .935 OPS vs. LHP. He should be in the lineup vs. LHP.
Newman has a .564 OPS vs. RHP. He should be on the bench vs. RHP.
The lineup should be
1. India
2. McLain
3. EDLC
4. CES
5. Steer
6. Fraley/Senzel
7. Stephenson
8. Benson/Newman
9. Friedl
The weak link in this lineup is Stephenson. I like speed at the bottom of the lineup so I have Benson and Friedl there. Who would have thought in April that it is possible that Stephenson would be the weakest link in the lineup.
Crazy idea but maybe trading an injury prone Lodolo would help land some pitching. Getting him back in August seems possible but at what level if his stress fracture in is throwing arm is still lingering. Those take a while to clear up.
Trade partners will have all the same questions, and therefore we’d be trading him while his value is low for something will less upside and probably not as good.
Lodolo IS that pitching asset you’re looking for.
“lower” not “low”. Lodolo has high value overall due to control and upside.
@Tom – what makes Lodolo injury prone? No need to put labels on him yet
@Jonathan Linn – Lodolo has been injured every year since he was drafted, if I’m not mistaken. Fortunately nothing too serious, but at the moment a stress fracture in his throwing arm sounds bothersome with the potential to linger all season – and next? I’d actually expect him to return closer to September and on a limited basis, maybe in time for a playoff push?
The idea we’re a contender with Lodolo this year is hard to shake, but it really depends now on Abbott carrying the torch with Greene to get us to the finish line. Those appear to be our only good options aside from heroics from the back of the rotation (which can happen).
In the meantime, Lodolo could be packaged as a potential ace (he is) who really just needs the rest of the season to manage his work load on a team not in contention this year. He will have 4-5 seasons of control left. Quite valuable.
Maybe someone pays big enough for him to help our Reds this year and next, as he’s sure to have a lot of believers out there still.
So, is he bound for durability? Or is this (as it really appears) more like a Winker / Senzel type of player? Is this a sell high moment with the right offer?
Vottos a legendary hard worker. I’m ok with giving him a spot to work into shape. Not kicking dirt on him yet. Like others said, he’ll call it when it is time.
I like to look at the records and see winning records for the minors as a whole and 3 of four non rookie levels. Records aren’t everything, but it is nice to see.
McLain and Elly interestingly both played 38 games at AAA prior to their promotion. CES is at 35 games. Hmm
McLain and Elly interestingly both played 38 games at AAA prior to their promotion. CES is at 39 games. Hmm
Michael Trautwein promoted to AA. He’s a very interesting prospect, as a long, lanky catcher who plays a very serviceable corner OF and some 1B.